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Article Source: CNNIn 2007, the number of suicides was twice that of homicides based on statistics from 16 states, according to a report released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the United States.
Rise in suicide among middle aged people.
No hope for a better future leads to a rise in suicide among any age.
#1 - Fri May 14, 2010 10:01 AM EDTThink it has ANYTHING to do with these factors?
The Troubling Link Between Big Pharma and the American Psychiatric Association
Using Santa Claus as a metaphor for the United States, it's not hard to understand the difficulty some have with coping with the fact that the American Dream wasn't guaranteed for hard work and patriotism.
the fact that the American Dream wasn't guaranteed for hard work and patriotism.
In fact the opposite seems to be true.
But the fact remains that many people, under the same crappy deal, do not commit suicide. What is the difference?
I think part of it is a variation of expectations. Last year and the year before there were several reports of men who killed their entire families, including pets, and themselves after losing everything. Now these were VERY successful men who suddenly found themselves penniless.They didn't fall from the upper class to the middle class. They fell straight to the bottom, at least in the way that they measure things.
Most people are at least peripherally aware that they are no more than 3 or 4 missed paychecks from the street, but some people believe they are immune to lose and really can't handle it when it happens to them.
I remember those incidents.
What can be done to prevent this kind of thing? Are those people worth saving at all?
Worth saving?
First off, I firmly believe in the right of the individual to end his own life. In fact, that is the ONLY life anyone has an absolute right to end, their own.
The wives and children and yes, even the pets, were sacrificed on the mens' alter to their own vision of what constitutes a successful life. That was wrong. Not just wrong because they ended lives that were not theirs. Wrong because their only metric for success was wealth. No one should live such a one dimensional life.
A person may fail and rise again, but not if they decide to leave the world behind. The kids may have gone on to do great things, or even just routine things. Still they had a right to try.
The wives may have had a different idea of the value of their lives than their husbands. They had that right.
So, in short (Finally!!) Everyone in despair doesn't submit. Some that do might have been saved, some not. I would like to think these men were overwhelmed by despair and refused to seek any kind of counseling. They may not have even considered it.
Yeah, they're worth saving.
Yeah, they're worth saving.
Agreed. Now if we could just figure out how....
[[First off, I firmly believe in the right of the individual to end his own life]]
Has there EVER been a suicide in your family? There have been several in mine. Do you have ANY idea of what a mess they leave behind, the guilt and rage of the survivors, even the feelings of the children? No, unless you are terminally ill and in terrible pain, you do NOT have the moral "right" to end your own life. It is just about the most selfish things anyone could do. There is always some better alternative.
No, unless you are terminally ill and in terrible pain, you do NOT have the moral "right" to end your own life. It is just about the most selfish things anyone could do. There is always some better alternative.
Perhaps there is, perhaps not, but it's not your choice to make is it?
Perhaps there is, perhaps not, but it's not your choice to make is it?
If you believe that someone who wants to take their own life is not "in the their right mind" than it is the same as a murderer or rapist. You have a compulsion to do something that generates a lot of reverberating pain in the community. Thus, this community has an obligation to prevent you from doing this action.
In that sense, I don't believe you have a right to take your life just as someone doesn't have a right to kill or rape another person. I tend to focus more on the community's responsibility to prevent individuals from acting on their destructive impulses -- whatever they may be.
If you believe that someone who wants to take their own life is not "in the their right mind" than it is the same as a murderer or rapist
Beg pardon?! You're saying that someone who kills them self is the moral equivalent of a rapist? Is that what I'm reading here? Or are you saying your 'belief' trumps someone else's right's to make decisions about their own life?
Remember, how you deal with your emotions is up to you. That doesn't give you the right to impose what you 'believe' to be right on another person.
Beg pardon?! You're saying that someone who kills them self is the moral equivalent of a rapist? Is that what I'm reading here? Or are you saying your 'belief' trumps someone else's right's to make decisions about their own life?
I am saying that there is a belief that someone who would rape or murder someone is not in a "normal" state of mind (hence, not guilty by reason of insanity) -- suicide can be considered in the same vein. As in, the decision is not for the individual to make such as in murder or rape.
I am not comparing the acts from a moral standpoint...only from the standpoint that they are choices that an individual does not have the right to make.
I am saying that there is a belief that someone who would rape or murder someone is not in a "normal" state of mind (hence, not guilty by reason of insanity
Ahh, do you subscribe to the notion that all criminals are mentally ill then? So that all crime should be treated as illness?
suicide can be considered in the same vein
Why? Murder and rape involve one person imposing his will on another. Suicide doesn't.
I am not comparing the acts from a moral standpoint.
Yes. You are.
only from the standpoint that they are choices that an individual does not have the right to make.
But you feel fully qualified to make those decisions for them? Is that about right?
Remember, how you deal with your emotions is up to you. That doesn't give you the right to impose what you 'believe' to be right on another person.
But you feel fully qualified to make those decisions for them? Is that about right?
I feel like you want to pick a fight with me and I am not clear why. I can only repeat what I said earlier in a different way, hoping to clarify.
I choose to focus on society's responsibility to support memebers that have, for some reason, taken a path that leads to the pain and suffering of other community members (this includes suicide as not just the person who dies it negatively influenced by the act).
I think telling a person who wants to commit suicide that it is simply "their choice" is neither productive or sympathetic. Society needs to take a proactive role in understanding why individuals behave in a way that is destructive both to themselves and others and have ways to prevent it from ever getting that far.
And, no, I am not comparing the acts on a moral standpoint. If you have misinterpreted my statements, that is an issue of my poor communication and/or your inability to accurately interpret my meaning.
We disagree on a very fundamental level. A person has the right to take their own life, it is theirs. How others deal with it is up to them. That some will view it as a tragedy and lose is certainly true but it does NOT trump the individual's right to decide his own fate.
And if you think you aren't judging morals then you don't understand your own actions. My ability to intrepret them may be superior to yours.
[[Beg pardon?! You're saying that someone who kills them self is the moral equivalent of a rapist? Is that what I'm reading here? Or are you saying your 'belief' trumps someone else's right's to make decisions about their own life?]]
Suicide devastates whole families. What makes you so self-centered that you really believe it's all about "your own life"? Unless you are a hermit, you do not belong solely to yourself. Especially if you made the decision to marry and, worse, have children, you must think of the well-being of these people, not just yourself. To be raped by a stranger would be horrible, but not as devastating as being a suicide survivor and having to ask yourself for the rest of your life, WHY? Or torture yourself thinking you could have stopped them somehow.
[[member, how you deal with your emotions is up to you. That doesn't give you the right to impose what you 'believe' to be right on another person.]]
What kind of ridiculous, pathetic psychobabble is THAT? People have been helping each other to keep community norms, aka live moral lives, since the cave days. No society could possibly function if they didn't. I can't imagine anything more callous than to tell a suicidal person, "hey, it's up to you, buddy. It's your life."
I see that rational discussion is beyond the scope of this column. Finding something that you morally disagree with you delete rather than face facts. Really mature there.
Wheel - you were deleted for violation of the CoH - personal attack.
Say whatever you like so long as you don't violate CoH. Nothing personal, thanks.
Thanks tyler, nice to see that one person can differentiate between a personal attack and facts.
CNN did not seem to elaborate that the suicide rates for 2005 and 2006, were double the homicide rates, as well. The rate has been nearly double in the last 10 years. The suicide ratio to homicides started to increase in the late 80's and 90's, but the homicide rate was falling rather dramatically, as well.The homicide rate seems to be leaning upward, so it would be further troubling, if the suicide rate maintained the 2:1 ratio.
While the U.S. homicide rate is staggering in comparison to many western countries, it has a much lower suicide rate.
#4 - Fri May 14, 2010 12:09 PM EDTInteresting, hsquared.
This article puts us behind the following countries in terms of suicide rates as of 2005: Britain, Greece (this is probably different now), Italy, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain.
But then, this is confusing. How can America have more homocides than most Western countries, double the number of suicides, but less suicides than most Western countries?
I'm now confused.
Britain, Greece (this is probably different now), Italy, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, Portugal, and Spain.
These countries do have lower suicide rates than the U.S., but the rates are higher in ..... Canada, Germany, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, France, Finland and Belgium.
Why are Spain and Italy at the opposite end from France. Why is The Netherlands so different from its neighboring countries. Map.
but less suicides than most Western countries
Not less suicides, but a less rate of suicides. The rate is based on incidents per 100,000 of population. With a population of 300m (U.S.), then 1.0=3000 or a population of 10.7m 1.0=107. The U.S. has a much larger population than most western countries, as well. If the U.S. has a rate of 10 suicides per 100,000, then the total for the country would be 30,000. Begium's rate of 18.4, would mean 1,969, with population at 10.7m..
If we only used total numbers in place of rates, the U.S. would dwarf nearly all western countries, from homicides, suicides, budgets, deficits, etc. Rates do provide a more accurate apples to apples comparison when discussing a lot of issues between countries.
Not less suicides, but a less rate of suicides
Those tricky math/statistics terms. I never was good with numbers =(
Thanks for the clarification.
The article itself is data collected from 16 states, representing about 26% of the total population. These 16 states, as a group, have a bit higher (historical) suicide rate than the national average and a lower (historical) homicide rate. AS A GROUP, not necessarily each state.
Homicide is a felony crime. Suicide is not a felony crime (although it can be the subject of civil litigation). Assisted suicide, by either commission and/or omission is a felony crime in nearly all states.
The ramifications of either, can be extremely difficult for the families and loved ones. In a homicide, those loved ones can only hope for some closure, by some manner of incarceration for the person(s) to blame. In some respects, a suicide becomes much harder on the family, as the loved ones will look to each other and the wider community for clues to either assign blame or find closure. The closure is much harder to find. In both cases, a life has been lost and the loved ones will grieve. Compounding the matter, is society's views on each. Society will more likely rush to provide comfort for the family of a murder victim, but struggles with words of comfort for the families of a suicide victim. This difference, imo, is based on moral interpretations of religious writings.
I base my observations on a very few instances of both homicides and suicides, in families I have known. The families that experienced suicides seemed to have disintegrated more often and faster than in the case of homicides. I should qualify that statement by stating that an older person (70+) dying from cancer and undergoing treatment does not seem to fit in either category. For some reason, society and families are able to cope with this type of death. If, however, it is a young person of good physical health, the reaction is quite different.
Again, my observations lead me to believe that any perceived mental health issue is difficult for society to acknowledge. 20~30 years ago, a person going senile or suffering dementia was whispered about. Today, we call it Alzheimer's and it is more widely accepted, although we still struggle on how to address the topic with that person or their family, (although it seems easier if the person is late 70's or older).
#5 - Sun May 16, 2010 10:54 PM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
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